Redesigning Life in U.S. Prisons

SPEAKER 1: Welcome to Justice Today, the official podcast of the Department of Justice's Office of Justice Programs, where we shine a light on cutting-edge research and practices and offer an in-depth look at what we're doing to meet the biggest public safety challenges of our time. Join us as we explore how funded science and technology help us achieve strong communities.

JOSH MONDORO: Welcome back to the show, everyone. I'm Josh Mondoro, your host for today. Eight years ago, the VERA Institute of Justice and the MILPA Collective began a program that tried to change the current prison culture in the U.S. They entered a maximum security prison in Connecticut, known as “the Rock,” and began working with incarcerated individuals and staff to understand how they could build a better way of life within the prison. This became the first unit in the Restoring Promise Program. So what is Restoring Promise? How is it different than a typical U.S. prison experience? And what impact has it made around the country? Here to discuss these questions with me are three guests, Kyleigh Clark-Moorman, Selma Djokovic, and Josh Somers. Kyleigh is a Social Science Research Analyst at NIJ, Selma is the Associate Director of Research for Restoring Promise with the Vera Institute of Justice, and Josh is a Research Manager for the MILPA Collective with Restoring Promise. Thank you all for joining me today. 

And before we get to the first question, there's actually another question that I want to ask you all. When I was looking through over content, looking over what we're going to talk about, I realized I never asked you how you got involved in this research. So, Kyleigh, I want to start with you.

KYLEIGH CLARK-MOORMAN: Criminal justice research, I owe all to Christopher Meloni, who was the star of both “Oz” and “SVU Law & Order” that I — both of which I probably watched at way too young of an age and got me really thinking about the prison system in our United States. So that's the real origins. But as far as Restoring Promise, I came on to NIJ and they were already doing this great work. And I saw — you know, I was — I was keyed into the work outside of NIJ, and then coming here, just really excited that it's kind of continuing.

JOSH MONDORO: Selma, how about you?

SELMA DJOKOVIC: I got into the social justice space in college, actually. So I went to John Jay College of Criminal Justice. I was taking a Gender Studies class. It's kind of like where it really first started. And after that — it was the first Gender Studies course being taught at John Jay at the time. And so I took that first class. The same professor was teaching a gender and justice class. In the gender and justice class, we talked a lot about intersectionality and how kind of different identities interact with different institutions and systems across the country, and that really kind of ignited a passion for, really, social justice, generally. And Restoring Promise was — A, was in the social justice, criminal justice space but, also, they did, at the time, collaborative research, and that was really important to me to maintain in my career, that all of the research that I was doing was for the people who are most impacted by any research being done and any change being made. So I joined Restoring Promise and have been here for seven years now, almost, so…

JOSH MONDORO: That’s awesome. That’s a great journey. Josh, how about you?

JOSH SOMERS: Yeah. No, so I was — I was incarcerated. And then I came home after being incarcerated and didn't really know how to move or what my — what my choices were. I went — I chose to go to school because I felt like I didn't have any other choice because of how hard it is to get jobs being felons now. I — you know, I didn't know, you know? And — so, you know, we're — coming home, it wasn't like — it was almost like you didn't want people to know that you were incarcerated, you know? Like it was almost like a shame, you know, or almost like an embarrassment. And then, you know, the — Juan Gomez and John Pineda, the directors of MILPA, you know, approached me and came over to me and they — you know, they taught me how to use it as a tool, you know? Wear it, you know? So — you know, even when I'm introducing myself, you know, "My name is Joshua Somers. I'm formerly incarcerated, system-impacted," and being okay with that, you know? And they brought me in. They brought me closer. And they says, "Look, we're — there is a project that we're working on. There's an initiative called Restoring Promise. We would like to bring you over here. And this is a — this is a opportunity, where this — where we center that leadership of formerly incarcerated, you know? It's like your lived experience provides more than what some Ph.Ds can because you've lived it. You know what I mean? You've lived it. You've experienced it. Your voice matters, you know? So it's our way of kind of like disrupting it a little bit about — like bring — allowing ourselves at the table. You know what I mean?" So we — I came over to Restoring Promise. And through it all, it was — alongside with others with similar situations — and I've been part of Restoring Promise now for four years this month.

JOSH MONDORO: That's awesome. That's a really, really powerful story. Thank you for sharing that, and it's really great to hear about how you all got connected to this. So, Kyleigh, starting with you, broadly speaking, you all — you know, we — we're here to talk about Restoring Promise and the prison system in the U.S. Broadly speaking, what is the culture and life in the U.S. prison like?

KYLEIGH CLARK-MOORMAN: Well, in U.S. prisons, I mean, as well as jails, we see a real culture of control. And so that means that a primary concern for prison administrators, for jail administrators, is physical security. That means that they're really trying to keep people who live there and work there safe. But even with all those kinds of controls and that culture, prison and jail can still be very violent. In these institutions, there's a lot of punitive responses. So going along with keeping physical security, going along with controlling individuals in prison, there's punitive responses to bad behavior that can include things like infractions, right? That can be lockdowns, sometimes of the entire institution, just for maybe a few people's behavior. That can mean sending people to restrictive housing. But when you have…

JOSH MONDORO: So a lot of punishment emphasis.

KYLEIGH CLARK-MOORMAN: Yeah. Yes. Big punishment emphasis. But within that culture, when you create that culture, it can be difficult because it can create this like adversarial "us versus them", right? And that can be difficult to also create a culture where rehabilitation and reentry is an emphasis. So if you have this adversarial culture, it can be difficult to focus on rehabilitation and reentry. And so that's why we're really excited to talk about these kinds of programs or philosophies that disrupt that status quo, that culture of control, like Restoring Promise, where it's really trying to change the culture by establishing these different types of units that really don't focus on these punitive responses.

JOSH MONDORO: Yeah — you mentioned reentry. Like it — it's hard when you're — you have an adversarial, like you mentioned, a tense, combative situation. It's hard to prepare — it doesn't sound like it's a setup to prepare people for what comes next, you know? There are plenty of individuals who are going to hopefully leave, you know, and reenter society, and they're not being prepared for that, it sounds like, in a way.

KYLEIGH CLARK-MOORMAN: Yeah. That's such a great point. You know, the majority of people who are in prison are going to come out. They're going to come back into our communities. We also know that prison impacts people of color disproportionately. So, you know, non-white individuals are disproportionately imprisoned compared to white individuals. And, again — so, you know, prison — this culture of control and kind of this violence that is seen in prison can really impact people, impact success of reentry. But, again, you know, administrators are under a lot of pressure to keep people safe, both living and working in prisons, but also now tasked with rehabilitating and preparing for reentry. So it can be difficult, and it's a lot to consider.

JOSH MONDORO: So Kyleigh has just laid out the — kind of the context here. With that context, we have a system that is very much in need of improvement. Restoring Promise is kind of a way to do that. What was the inspiration for Restoring Promise and the improvement that it sought to bring to the U.S.?

SELMA DJOKOVIC: Well, so, you know, a lot of what we've seen in the prison system today is a direct reflection of this country's long and storied and horrible history with slavery. As we might know, or might not know, America's Thirteenth Amendment in the Constitution abolished slavery except for people who had committed a crime. And I contrast that with the German person system where human dignity is enshrined in their Constitution. So their First Amendment, I believe, is that — reads, and I'm going to read it, "Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority." And this is very, very different, right, and stark contrast to the Thirteenth Amendment.

JOSH MONDORO: So, there's a foundation kind of in law that this is important, which is not the case here?

SELMA DJOKOVIC: And that is directly reflected in the way that we treat the people who we incarcerate, right? If you don't believe that people are deserving of human dignity, that they are essentially slaves if they have committed a crime and are incarcerated, then that allows you to treat them in a way that is not conducive to success, right? As Kyleigh was talking about, it's dehumanizing. It gives you a license to dehumanize. Whereas, in Germany, it's literally the opposite. You only have a license to humanize, right? That is your job as a state authority. 

And so, like I said, this ethos is really reflected in the way that Germans incarcerate the people who are in their system. And so, in 2015, Vera organized a trip for a group of folks that included some corrections officials to go and see this system firsthand: How is this translating, this human dignity principle translating, to the way that people are incarcerated? And the group visited a number of prisons throughout the country, and I asked, you know, the — one of — our Initiative Director Ryan Shanahan was on this trip. I was not. But I did get the opportunity in 2018 to go to Germany to see their prisons. But I asked Ryan, you know, "What were people most struck by on this trip?" And she said that, you know, no matter the location — you know, in Germany, there are newly built modern prisons that are honest—frankly, like beautiful, right, and modern, architecturally really, really well-done and then there are older structures, right, that more closely resemble American prisons. But regardless of the environment, there was a consistency in the culture, in the way people interacted with one another, in the way that human dignity was showing up. 

There's an emphasis in Germany on normalization, making sure that life on the inside reflects as closely as possible life on the outside. And so this looks like staff and incarcerated people wearing their own clothes. Them having a camaraderie. Incarcerated people have access to kitchens to cook their own food. They can open and close their own windows. These things sound so, I don't know, silly or inconsequential, right? But when you've been to an American prison, those things are like, you know, so jarring because you just don't see it.

JOSH MONDORO: Even in media too. Like in the U.S.…

SELMA DJOKOVIC: Exactly.

JOSH MONDORO: …you don't see that represent — like there's always the iron bars. There's all — like there's very much — you don't have a lot of privacy or agency.

SELMA DJOKOVIC: Exactly. Yeah. And there's — people are moving freely throughout facilities. In these newer, more modern buildings, they — a lot of the rooms that I saw, folks had a separate entrance to a bathroom, right? A bathroom with a door. Kind of like an en suite, right, and a master bedroom or something like that. And then even in the older facilities where, you know, they didn't have that built in to the architecture of those buildings, having a separate bathroom in the room, they put a little curtain around the toilet that sits in the cell, because — you know, just to like respect that dignity that like a toilet shouldn't just be like out in the open where you sleep and where you, you know, spend your days. And so like these little things are — were really, you know, a reflection of the way that the Germans uphold human dignity in kind of the day-to-day and in their operations. 

And one of the people who was on this trip, because you asked me about the kind of origin story of Restoring Promise, was Scott Semple, who was the commissioner of the Connecticut prison at the time. And when he came back from the trip and Vera came back from the trip, we were internally exploring how we could apply what we learned in Germany to young adults in the adult system here. And at the same time, Connecticut was thinking about what they themselves could apply to their own system and to young adults specifically, because they visited a juvenile facility in Germany, and, in Germany, it's so rare that they incarcerate anybody under the age of 18. So their juvenile system is from 18 to 21 years old. And you can be incarcerated in one of those prisons up to 25, depending on the length of your sentence. And so Scott Semple really wanted to do something with young adults. And it all came together in 2016, and that's when we partnered with them to open the first Restoring Promise unit, which was the true unit in Connecticut, and that opened in January 2017.

JOSH MONDORO: Kyleigh had mentioned that in the U.S. there's a heavy emphasis on control and especially like physical safety and an emphasis on that, what was — you mentioned you visited Germany. What did you — did you see anything similar over there or did they do things — sounds like they did it differently over in Germany.

SELMA DJOKOVIC: Absolutely. I think — you know, one of the things that struck me also when I — excuse me. When I went to Germany is that, you know, you can go up to any correctional officer in any facility in Germany and ask them, "What is your role," and they would share that it's to serve and protect the incarcerated people, whereas like here in the American system…

JOSH MONDORO: Wow. Yeah.

SELMA DJOKOVIC: …it's to serve and protect the public from the incarcerated people, even though they're incarcerated, but like — whatever. And to uphold their human dignity. And, in Germany, officers go through two years of training when they're hired as corrections officials. It's also a highly, highly sought after position in Germany. They are — there are way more applicants than there are positions, which is an — you know, very stark contrast, unfortunately, especially, you know, today, to the staffing shortages that we're seeing across this country. And what they learned in this training is things like psychology, law, young adult development, different courses on like criminology, effective communication, active listening, therapy, right? Like they're going through this like really crazy training. And then their role is really to be kind of a counselor, mentor to the incarcerated people there. And so what you end up seeing is that "us versus them," that adversarial culture that exists in the U.S. prisons, does not exist in Germany, right? Staff and incarcerated people are working in step together to get the incarcerated person prepared to go home, because, in Germany too, most people are going home. And we want to — and Germany says, "We want to make sure that the people who are going back are good citizens to their neighbors, right?" And so they really focus on rehabilitation. Daily schedules are packed with different activities for folks to do that are — that is really intensely focused on getting them home and getting them home successfully and staying home, right? That's also really important.

And so for Restoring Promise, we really wanted to bring those core elements back. And what we noticed in Germany and what everybody saw in Germany is that staff are really critical to success of any of these efforts. They set the tone off the rip. And I think, you know, staff are dehumanized by the system too. It's not just the incarcerated people who are negatively impacted by the way that the prison system in this country works. And so it was really important for us to communicate to staff that this was also about them and their dignity and uplifting their dignity and giving them, you know, a greater purpose than just custody and control. And I think, you know, that's been a big part of it. And so we noticed that the training was really crucial in Germany, and so — we couldn't, you know, do a two-year training. I don't think any director of corrections would — you know, could really take their staff out to do a two-year training. But what we were able to do was the three-week intensive training for all staff who work on Restoring Promise units, and that has similar kind of topics like young adult development, restorative justice, active listening, effective communication, the history of the prison system, things like that that staff are learning.

JOSH MONDORO: I think it's kind of hard for an American audience to imagine, honestly, because, you know, like in media representations of prison culture, if nothing else, you know, a lot of Americans have been exposed to that, right, and the image there is like there's a fight, right? There's always a fight and it's often between correct — like the staff and, you know, the incarcerated individuals. In Germany, like, hypothetically, if there was, you know, a confrontation, altercation, like how would they handle something like that?

SELMA DJOKOVIC: Well, it's funny you should mention that because one of the corrections officials on the trip actually asked a German official who is leading the tour like what — or actually asked a corrections officer who was part of the tour group but worked in Germany like, "What do you do if somebody spits on you?" And that corrections officer from Germany like just looked really puzzled, and was like, "I would ask them why did you spit on me?" Whereas, as you can imagine, as Kyleigh was sharing earlier, you know, what a response in a — in a dehumanizing custody and control — a system hyperfocused on custody and control, what the response would be to somebody spitting.

JOSH MONDORO: Immediate punishment.

SELMA DJOKOVIC: Right. Yes. Immediate punishment, retribution, putting them in solitary confinement, taking away their phone calls, visits for, you know, 30, 60, 90 days, you know? These are practices that are commonly used in the prison system today whenever something occurs. And, you know, it's a vicious cycle. That German official was puzzled by the question because she's like that doesn't happen here, but why doesn't it happen there? Because it's not a system that is, you know, treating people in this critically dehumanizing way and then expecting them to fall in line, right? Oftentimes, we hear on — you know, on the research end, when we ask folks in interviews or in open-ended questions on the survey, like what is it that contributes to a safe environment or what is it that, you know, makes Restoring Promise Restoring Promise, and oftentimes it's really just that very foundational aspect of being treated like a human. We aren't treated like animals. We aren't, you know — and that's — it's such an easy thing to do. I mean, it sounds easier I think than it probably is in practice, especially when you consider a long history of practices over the years of dehumanizing people and trying to interrupt — disrupt that, but that's really all it is.

JOSH MONDORO: Yeah. And, I mean, you make a good point. It does sound simple and it — you know, in some ways, it's kind of encouraging almost. Like it really — if we get down to the kind of basics of what is one system built on versus what is another system built on, how can we then try and bring that culture and that — the basics with a foundation of that system over to this system? That's where, obviously, it gets a little more complicated. But that's where Restoring Promise can step in.

SELMA DJOKOVIC: Yeah.

JOSH MONDORO: Selma mentioned a couple of key things. One, you mentioned there's like an age range, kind of 18 to 25-year-olds. So it focused on young adults kind of over in Connecticut. That was the emphasis. So they wanted that — to target that specific demographic. And you also mentioned that staff are working on these units. So, Josh, I wanted to ask you, what — you know, who is — you know, living on these units and then also working with these units and how is that kind of set up?

JOSH SOMERS: Yeah. Of course. So as you heard, 18 to 25-year-olds, young adults, live on the unit, but, first, we're asking about 15, 16 mentors to live on the unit first. And though the mentors are people that have lengthier stays, you know, doing life, to where we're actually asking them, "Would you be interested? Would you come over here?" Actually — well, they might be living there 10 years, for all we know, where they're currently are. So we're asking them to give up where they're living now to try to go over to these units to work with these young adults. So, as Restoring Promise, we actually call the mentor the — kind of the backbone of this initiative. We call them the backbone of the initiative simply because of what we're asking them to do, you know? We're asking them to give up — give up where they're living — currently living, where they could have been for a long time, you know, made their home, to go work with this — to work on a Restoring Promise unit, go live in a Restoring Promise unit, to work with these young adults, which we have about — some could have up to 50 or 60 young adults in there. We move these young — these young adults in there in cohorts, you know — you know, groups at a time, to kind of, you know, get used to it, you know, or, you know, kind of feel around for it. We also don't want the — just the mentors to be overwhelmed, just kind of, you know, go — you know, trying to — take care of them in that, that way as well. 

So the mentors and the mentees live — and then we also have a selected staff that — you know what I mean? And keep in mind, all these — there's that application process. Everybody's applied to be on this Restoring Promise unit. So even this — so we even have selected staff that applied to work on a Restoring Promise unit, as well as counseling staff, as well — you know, unit managers, you know? They don't live on there, obviously, but they're kind — they — you know, they spend — their job is to work the Restoring Promise unit. The young adults — or no. The mentors and the staff are trained alongside each other to share that same values of restorative justice, race equity, cultural healing, and family engagement. And, at first, because of the stigma of prison, I've witnessed — where staff weren't comfortable sitting next — at the same table with lifers who are doing time, or mentors and stuff like that. But by the end of our training, I also witnessed handshaking, hugs. So, yeah, that’s kind of how — who lives on the Restoring Promise unit.

JOSH MONDORO: You mentioned applications. So there is a certain level of people need to be willing to buy in upfront, right? Like you're not just — it's not open to anyone. Do all incarcerated individuals, mentors and staff, all have to apply?

JOSH SOMERS: Yes.

JOSH MONDORO: Okay.

JOSH SOMERS: Yes.

JOSH MONDORO: So that’s amazing, that like there’s…

JOSH SOMERS: I mean — I mean, think about it. Think about it though, like, who wouldn’t want to — when they hear what we're coming to do, when they've heard the story of Restoring Promise — we never have a shortage of applications, you know. I mean, when it comes to staff, man, it's a little — like I said, staff shortage is a big thing across the United States, we know that. But as far as, like, mentors and mentees, you know, that's — everybody wants a — everybody wants a little bit of Restoring Promise.

JOSH MONDORO: That's a great testament to the work that you're doing, that — you know, because you described how they're — you know, maybe initially you've seen staff don't want to sit next to incarcerated individuals at the beginning, right? But now, like you have more applications than you can accept, so that's a great testament to your work. So can you describe kind of what life is like on these units that's so attractive to everyone?

JOSH SOMERS: Well, first off, you’ve heard everybody kind of talk about, like, the renovations, the transformation of a unit, you know, so what that looks like, more shelving in their cells, you know. Kitchens to cook their food, you know. I'll tell you, before — you know — you know, I've witnessed, you know, risking disciplinary action to get a more comfortable mattress, you know. So just being able to provide a more — I mean, a shelf in your cell in order to put your hygiene on, it doesn't — it sounds silly but it's a big deal, you know? So the renovations are the first — the first off. And there's a big sense of community, you know? And so what we're doing is we're providing a safe place, we're providing a unit where people can all come in as their own community. This is — in fact, for example, when they — when Restoring Promise has opened up, they actually create their own community or village agreements, you know?

JOSH MONDORO: Really?

JOSH SOMERS: Yeah, such as treat each other with respect, you know — you know. Hold each other accountable, you know. Lift each other up, you know. Calling each other in versus calling each other out. Just a bunch of respect. So it — when these young adults are coming in, and this is also — this is created by the mentors and the staff, you know, so they're working together to create this community. So as these young adults are coming in, it's almost like, "You guys want to come here, these are our agreements, are you okay with following these?" "Yes, we are." "Okay." You know? So keep in mind, you know, this is not an incentive unit. If it was our way, everybody deserve — every unit would be a Restoring Promise unit, everybody deserves human dignity, you know? So the gap — you know, we've shortened that gap of — that us versus them. 

You have — you have that — us versus them meaning the staff and incarcerated people, you have them now, you know, like I said, sitting in a circle with the — what that means is, like, every morning, every morning, the mentors, the staff, and all the mentees, they sit in a circle. They do a check-in, you know what I mean? They're doing, "How are you feeling on a scale of one to ten?" Right? Everybody might say a eight, a nine, you know, everyone's feeling good, they want to get — you know, they want to get back to what they're doing. There might be one or two that says, "I'm actually feeling a three." Okay. So, that lets everybody know, "Okay, how can we wrap around him, how can we lift him up?" You know? How can — you know, staff included, you know. And maybe something along the lines of you had a rough conversation with a family member or, you know, how — it's opportunities to identify how we can support each other, you know? So then we circle around the next day or later on that day, and that number might've went up just because of the sense of community, you know, someone might have came and talked to you, you know, or pulled you aside and says, "Hey," you know, "are you doing okay?" Because it's important when — you know, in Restoring Promise, when we say like, "Hey, how are you doing? Are you doing okay?" like, we mean it, you know. We want to know, you know. We're not just here — you know, we also — that's one of the ways that we close that "us versus them," you know. 

There's more freedom of movement, it's like — ultimately, it's like we're trying to create such an impact on these young individuals so they can go home and create impact on their community, it's like a way of ending mass incarceration, like Selma said, like, hopefully they stay home. Because I guarantee you — or most likely, I should say, that these young adults have experienced so much trauma before incarceration that led to incarceration. And who are we to blame? You can't heal trauma with trauma. Right? You can't heal trauma with trauma, you know. So that's one of the things that we — you know, how — we create that safe place. Prison is a stigma, of like, "I got to stand on my guard," especially when you're young, you know, coming from wherever you come from. "I got to stand on my guard all the time," right? So if you can create a space that lowers that guard and where someone could open up with expression, you know, like, "I'm not okay." And then the staff and the mentors would come up to them and say, "You know, it's okay to not be okay," you know? “It's okay. It's okay to tear up when you're in a circle. And so it's okay to, like, You know what, express yourself, you know, and know that you have a strong community behind you that's going to support you," you know? And that's all we're doing, creating a community, you know. They’re — or I should say we are, we're supporting them in creating their own community. The staff, you know, the mentors, and then the mentees, you know.

JOSH MONDORO: That's kind of a key element that you brought up a few times, that it's theirs, that they have ownership over it, and you kind of described some ways that they do that, like circle and, you know, when you don't even have to have — small changes like that, you know, that can kind of fuel that ownership and that bond. Is there a — is there a tough transition for some of them going from what the regular — the expected, maybe, system is like, life is like to — oh we're now trying to build a culture, build a community, and take ownership of that? Is there ever a friction or difficulty? Or do you tend to see people really buy in and get behind that goal?

JOSH SOMERS: When it comes to, you know, tough transition, I don't — when it comes to, like, mentors or mentees, like, I don't think so. No, I don't — I don't see it, you know, I don't see a tough one because what you're currently in is — you're in a warehouse, that’s warehousing humans, you know. So opportunities like this come to come and do these different things, like, we get the buy-in. And then there's other programs too, you know, other kind of work, you know, people doing work with young adults, you know, different kinds of programs. But what — the difference with us is that we're kind of transforming the way it's done. Our unit of analys — let's keep in mind that our unit of analysis is not the individuals, it is the culture of the prison. So what does that even mean, like, you know, like, for example like, two — you know, one example me and Selma like to use is two kids are fighting over a candy bar. Right? Traditionally, they’ll instantly get discipline, wrote-up, loss of privileges, loss of all that, right? When we — but when we come in, our question is more of like, we're not really kind of interested to why two kids are fighting, we're more interested why they're fighting over — what's going on in the environment that they're fighting over food, you know? So that's what — so we don't really see too much transition — I mean, there's maybe more — there's a lot of — you're battling mindsets, right? And so there's hesitancies, there's people that think — there's still people on there that "don't do the crime if you can't do the time" or, you know — you know, just places — so you're — that's what it is, you know? So, like, we've actually — but with Restoring Promise, we have seen the transformation of the minds. People that were, "No, this is never going to work, we shouldn't even be doing this," to bought in — to bought in and now going around talking about — presenting about the impact of Restoring Promise in their own state.

JOSH MONDORO: That's amazing. That's amazing. When you describe the — you know, that kind of culture of ownership and changing that culture, are there — you described some of the habits, you mentioned like the circle and checking in and, kind of, that being one of the elements, are there other either habits or, you know, other aspects of the program that kind of help build — not only, I guess, build that culture and that community but also, you know, Selma and Kyleigh both mentioned, trying to prepare young adults for, you know, when we’re reentering society, right? Are there other either classes or things in the program that focus specifically on that, too?

JOSH SOMERS: Yeah. Well, so there's — well, the good thing is, when you open up a community like that where people are — there's a lot of talent in prison, you know? So when you open up — when you build a community where people are allowed to express through their own talent, their art on the walls, you know, just having color on the walls does something to your mental health, you know, just breathing fresh air does something to your mental health. So, you know, I'll give an example. One of our units in Colorado, there was one mentee on the unit. He didn't speak English, only Spanish. So without the help of anybody else, no — you know, nobody outside the Restoring Promise — the Restoring Promise village, you know, the mentors, the staff — the unit staff — the unit staff, the unit managers, instead of teaching the young man English, they created their own class to teach everybody Spanish, you know? So that was just one — that's — so I bring that up because, like, keep in mind, this is prison, keep in mind that, like, we didn't have to do anything for them to do, they came up with that idea themselves. So when you ask yourselves, like, "Why did you do that?" Well — or "What made you think of that?" Well, some sort of guards have been coming down, some — there's been some sort of transformation of people, of bonds with each other that they're able to — that they cared about each other enough to do that, and they had — I was there to visit, and they had every single person participating, raising their hands and building — we're just — by changing the environment — I mean, these people are creating — so we're not doing any classes, they're creating their own classes. Another example I give you too is in North Dakota where the unit manager — when I visit them, they would come and visit — or I will visit North Dakota, they will come tell me, on their own, the fact that one mentee wrote an apology letter to another mentee without being told to do that, just from what he's learned by being in this environment, you know? So some — so those are just some of the ones I wanted to make sure I highlighted, but at the same time — other things that we do too, they create their family days, their celebrations. So if somebody got their GED, that unit's going to celebrate with each other. They're going to — they're going to — they're going to empower him, like, "Congratulations, man," you know, "you did it," you know? They're going to celebrate all kinds, you know, achievements, Father's Days for the fathers in there, you know. So they build this amongst themselves.

JOSH MONDORO: It sounds like one of the effects of that trust and that community is creativity and, like, expression, you mentioned art, you mentioned, you know, teaching different languages, things like that. And that's really — it's really incredible to hear about that and those examples, and just how the mindset is shifting on those units. You mentioned a couple of locations, you mentioned Colorado, North Dakota. Selma, where is Restoring Promise around the country, in addition to those locations, and what are some of the results from those locations?

SELMA DJOKOVIC: So Restoring Promise currently has two units in Connecticut, one in — the very first unit that I mentioned earlier, which is the true unit, that's in a maximum security men's prison. We have a women's unit, the only women's unit for Restoring Promise, so far, in Connecticut as well, at a—their only women’s facility there. We worked with Middlesex County Jail in Massachusetts to help them open up a unit, the P.A.C.T. unit. We have two units in men's prisons in South Carolina. One unit in a men's prison in North Dakota, one in a men's prison in Colorado, and we're in the process of opening a unit in a men's prison in Idaho. And we just completed, with NIJ funding, well, not just but a little bit ago, completed a randomized controlled trial, which was our first, you know, real evaluation of the impact of Restoring Promise. For that particular study, we were interested in whether or not Restoring Promise had an impact in reducing violence amongst young adults, and found that it did in fact have a significant impact on reducing violence, so young adults who lived on Restoring Promise units were less likely to commit violent infractions than young adults who lived in the general population in the control group. 

And generally overall, we also have, you know, do research with each unit whenever we open it. We do process evaluations to really understand how the unit's developing, you know, short-term outcomes of living on the unit and working on the unit for staff and incarcerated folks. And across the board, you know, people feel invested in, they feel safe. That's a really, really important point. You know, Kyleigh spoke earlier about there being a real focus in this country on security, but security does not always equal safety, right? You can be in a place that is, you know, has barbed wire all over the place, the door locks behind you as soon as you change rooms, and you can feel insanely unsafe, right? And so people feel safe both staff and incarcerated people. They feel like they have a greater sense of purpose, both of them. Young adults feel like they have a space where they can express themselves, where they can show up as individuals, where they don't have to constantly be on alert all the time. Staff have said that it — working on the unit has improved their quality of life, has improved their relationships with their own families when they go home. But staff do talk about it being a different kind of stress, right? Staff are like, now I have to like, you know, be a counselor to young adults, and that, you know, can be — can be taxing, but it's a stress that's worth it, right? That's what we hear all the time. It's worth it. It feels like at the end of the day, something positive is being done. And so across the board, you know, it's been difficult, it's been challenging work. It's, you know, and it's a challenge to maintain that and sustain it. But, you know, the true unit has been open for seven — over seven years now, and it's still going strong. And they themselves opened up a second unit right next door without…

JOSH MONDORO: Oh, wow.

SELMA DJOKOVIC: Yeah. I mean, we — you know, we knew about it, but they were, like, we got this. The mentors and the staff just, you know, came together…

JOSH MONDORO: That’s amazing.

SELMA DJOKOVIC: …and the administrators, and they opened a unit right next door, which is really a unit that's meant to prepare folks. It's kind of like a step down. Once folks have a certain amount of time left on their sentence, they'll go and live on that unit and have, like, really dedicated programming and activities for reentry. But, you know, it's going strong, and we're really, really happy with what we're finding so far.

JOSH MONDORO: You mentioned next door. When you say that, is that a, like it's literally next door to the other unit? Or is it in another facility?

SELMA DJOKOVIC: Yes. Oh, no. Next door to the other unit in the same facility.

JOSH MONDORO: Okay.

SELMA DJOKOVIC: And so, you know, I mentioned a bunch of different states and Restoring Promise works in places that are geographically diverse, in places with different challenges and opportunities, places with, like, different political landscapes. And what we're finding is that, you know, across the board, regardless of these kind of differences, in these diverse environments, we're seeing a positive impact everywhere.

JOSH MONDORO: That's amazing. It reminds me of a question I forgot to ask Josh. When — so you have the mentors and the individuals who are on the Restoring Promise unit, they are not — they're still interacting with people who are not living on that unit, at least at certain times of the day, right? What is that like, and is there any, you know, do you notice the culture that they have kind of at all affecting, or being affected by, maybe the culture that's not on their unit?

JOSH SOMERS: From the — from the responses that I've gotten, you know, it's more of like, “Tell me what I got to do to get on the unit. Put a good word for me to get on the unit,” you know. “How do I get on the unit?” You know, “put a good word in for me.” So, nothing bad, I don't think without — when it comes to mentees or mentors, you know, there might be a little, how — I don't want to say like jealousy in a way, you know — you know, but there could be just like, I applied and didn't get — and didn't get in. But that's — but that's — but that's not — it's nothing against the program. It's more like, dang, you know, maybe next time, you know, because there's…

JOSH MONDORO: So overall more of a positive effect, like you…

JOSH SOMERS: Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

SELMA DJOKOVIC: And I can jump in just to add a quick note. One of the things that is challenging about, you know, this work. And, you know, we've been talking about all the positives of it, and it is positive. And definitely the direction that American corrections should go in. But one of the things that we're, you know, that is a challenge is that the unit operates in a larger facility, in a larger system that isn't changing at that rate, and isn't kind of hasn't yet adopted this culture on a — on a wholesale level. And so it's hard for staff really to navigate that sometimes, right?

JOSH MONDORO: Kyleigh, Selma just mentioned that we're trying to expand, right, this work, and there are a lot of lessons that they've learned from the Restoring Promise approach. So are there other ways that this research and these lessons are being applied kind of in other areas that NIJ is working on?

KYLEIGH CLARK-MOORMAN: Yeah. So Restoring Promise is definitely, as we have alluded to, a unique initiative. So we're really happy to kind of uplift and support it, as we already have. Recently our sister agency, the Bureau of Justice Assistance, also announced a one and a half million dollar award to Vera to expand Restoring Promise through a new initiative that's called Designed for Dignity. And that will actually involve selecting eight agencies to use this framework. And the goal is to transform culture. So we're really excited to talk about that. And that BJA has also recognized the importance of this initiative. And then for NIJ specifically, we've rated Restoring Promise as promising on our clearinghouse of policies and programs, that's at crimesolutions.gov. And we encourage policymakers, administrators, practitioners to go onto that website and access more information about Restoring Promise and see kind of if they're interested in doing similar things at their institutions. And then we also — NIJ is also funding a similar but different project called, or I should say a similar but different project that also follows a European model. So we are funding research into the Kewanee Life Skills Re-Entry Center, which is a facility in Illinois. That again is focused on this European model. So it's a center that is preparing individuals for reentry in a pretty intensive way. They have heavy investments in education, heavy investments in other reentry programming. And so again, a little bit similar, a little bit different because it is a standalone facility, but we're really excited to see the results from that, which obviously research takes time, so it's going to take a couple years before the — we see those results.

So, we also introduced a new solicitation last year, and it was called the “Research and Evaluation on Correctional Culture and Climate” solicitation, and that was alongside our sister-agency, the Bureau of Justice Assistance. And now this solicitation was able to fund research that really builds on the foundation, that we talked about today, that was laid by Restoring Promise. So, under that solicitation, we provided almost $3.6 million in funds to fund four different projects that all focused on improving correctional culture and climate in various correctional environments.

So, one award was made to Suffolk University, and they’re going to work with the Massachusetts Department of Corrections to address occupational policies and procedures in an effort to ultimately improve officer health as well as wellness. Another award was made to RTI International, and they’re going to conduct a mixed-methods evaluation of cognitive communities in partnership with the Virginia Department of Corrections. These cognitive communities are housing units that use both therapeutic community as well as cognitive behavioral therapy principles to ultimately create healthy prosocial cultures and try to foster personal growth while also creating safe settings for staff and incarcerated individuals.

Under this solicitation we also were able to fund two CNA Corporation projects. One of those is evaluating the impact of body worn cameras on correctional culture and climate. That’s in partnership with the Minnesota Department of Corrections. That project involves equipping correctional officers with body worn cameras and evaluating the impact on culture and climate from both the perspective of staff people at the correctional institutions as well as incarcerated people. 

And the other CNA award is focused on improving procedural justice in the jail setting. And so, with that project, jail officers are going to be trained in procedural justice and they’re going to evaluate the impact of this training on jail climate. These projects did just start in January of this year, so it’s going to be some time before we get final results or even interim results. But we are really excited to be starting this important work that’s situated within many of the same goals of the Restoring Promise philosophy, namely that improving correctional culture and climate may be able to improve the carceral experience, as well as outcomes, for those both working and living in correctional institutions. 

Then beyond our own projects and our own funding, NIJ is also responsible for engaging with the field to improve knowledge as well as understanding. And so, in this respect, I also want to point listeners to a recent publication in Corrections Today and that was authored by our own NIJ Director, Dr. Nancy La Vigne, and that was entitled “Transforming Correctional Culture and Climate.” That article details various innovations from the field that enhance correctional culture and climate as well, and it also includes more information on Restoring Promise. 

But as described in that article, NIJ has documented similar efforts elsewhere. Some of those Little Scandinavia in Chester, Pennsylvania. This unit incorporates Scandinavian prison concepts like single cells, communal kitchens, outdoor green space. And also the Amend unit in Aberdeen Washington, which is encouraging international exchange and officer training and draws inspiration for potential reforms from Norway.

And for people who just want to read more about Restoring Promise, we actually just published another article in the summer issue of Corrections Today that’s focused solely on the philosophy. Both of these articles are available both at Corrections Today as well as on the NIJ website, if listeners are interested in accessing those. 

But again, there's definitely institutions across the country that are doing new and exciting things. And we're always happy to talk about things both that we're funding and that we hope to fund in the future.

JOSH MONDORO: It's a good excuse for us to talk again about what's coming in a few years and how that's going. One last question for all of you before we go. Kyleigh, I want to start with you. What is one thing that you want listeners to remember from this conversation?

KYLEIGH CLARK-MOORMAN: Yeah. I think that this research shows that changing the status quo is possible, and it can be really difficult and it's probably scary. But, you know, we're not seeing increases in violence. We're not seeing increases in misconduct. We're seeing really positive impacts from these units. And I just really encourage listeners to go and learn more.

JOSH MONDORO: Selma.

SELMA DJOKOVIC: I think the take home message for me from our conversation today is that when you lead with dignity, everything else falls into place. I think oftentimes we often get asked, “what is it?” Like, what is the "it" that, you know, that is Restoring Promise or that leads to the safety or, you know, that leads to the purpose. And I think really, you know, when we were talking about Germany and the American system, for me it really just boils down to dignity.

JOSH MONDORO: And Josh.

JOSH SOMERS: Well, the message I wanted to leave with is more of just like, I want the impact — the dignity, the impact of human dignity to take back to their communities, to their homes because when they heal, we heal.

JOSH MONDORO: That is awesome. Thank you, Kyleigh, Selma, and Josh for talking about the U.S. prison system with us today, and Restoring Promise. I learned a lot. I know our listeners did, too. And I hope and encourage everyone who did listen to check out the episode description and learn more. Thank you also, listeners for tuning in, please follow us on Spotify, Apple, and stay tuned for more episodes from NIJ.

SPEAKER 2: To learn more about today's topic or about NIJ, visit the links in the episode description and join us for new episodes every month.